Aquarium Sump Calculator

[CHOMPERS]

Sheesh, who put a quarter in you guys? I haven't gotten caught up yet, but wow. And I thought I wrote a lot sometimes.

 

[CHOMPERS]

...was definitely a "minimum" tool rather than an optimal tool.

The definition of optimal in the case of aquaria follows along the lines of prevention. Basically overkill in most cases is a solid practice because we do not want to ever have the chance of being unprepared. In the instance of having "too much filtration" I can honestly say there is no such thing...

I definitely have to go back a page or two to get caught up...

I have two "minimum" sumps and I freak out every time I shut down the power. One is a P.O.C. "off the shelf" sump that has been supposedly sized for my tank. The maximum water level line is way off and until I figured it out, I came really close to floods several times. I don't get very much time between top offs from evaporation because of the low sump volume (3-4 days). It holds plenty of media but it is way undersized to be a suitable product.

The other one is my design. It is on the 250g and had to be designed to fit in the stand that has a finished interior. It is divided up into four cupboards, so I had serious space limitations. The math said that the surge volume in the sump was cutting it too close to handle the drain down gallonage, so I had to borrow volume from my waste tank. It isn't ideal but it works. I still freak out when I watch the sump fill up. I wish it was bigger.

I'm envious of oversized sumps.

 

[CHOMPERS]

 

[CHOMPERS]

...I hope we can keep this is civil as possible ...

Well played!

 

[Rivermud]

Rivermud, You can leave this thread just like you had to leave it on the other forum. I left your thread, so leave mine. you have nothing good to say about this as I had nothing good to say about yours.

Your definition and my definition of "minimum" must be different. You think of it as no room for error at all, possibly overflow and no acceptable bio volume. This is not what I think of minimum as. Like I said before, you CAN calculate the minimum, you can also add any safety factor you wan't to it. Its up to YOU to allow the calculator to choose the correct sump. If you don't add enough of a safety margin, your only asking for trouble.

Bio media is measured in volume btw. The surface area is so huge on most medias out there used in wet/drys, you can NOT calculate the media amount based on SA. Can you? I bet you can't.

Also, you say that this calculator has a preprogrammed bio volume. That is INCORRECT! This number is ADJUSTABLE by the USER. It is DEFAULTED as in, the number is saved into the Excel Sheet. You can change it any time you wan't. I have to say though, the number that is entered, is "overkill" in most situations.

This calc will give you a "suggested" bio media volume. Its "suggested" and not a required amount, because of the fact that the bio load is different in each tank. This is the reason the number given for the bio volume is MORE than you need in most situations.


The size sump dictates how much bio media you can have. The sump size is very important. Also, the user can even input the dimensions of their "area" for where the sump will be located and the calculator will pick out a sump size with that "added" variable.

The Aditional volume, if I keep it in design, will also be another "added" variable the calc will take into consideration.

So it CAN calculate based on the users needs.



The calculater can prepare as long as the correct value is used. I will say this again, in MOST situations for moderatly over stocked tanks, the value given WILL be acceptable.


Yes

You were asked to leave that thread because you chose to use personal attacks beyond discussing the issue. Your posts were deleted for that expressed reason. I am providing an opinion, not a personal attack. I actually admire the fact that you've put forth the effort to create this tool. In fact I've actually stated so earlier in this thread.

I was not the one to mention minimum to begin with, you did. You stated that this tool was a Minimum calculator to prevent people from going overkill. If you'd like I can quote but I'll leave that for you to ask since you ask me to quote each time I point something out. Needless to say it's ben said by you and it's there.

I state my issues with your tool because your margins of error are calculations based on a set of variables that must be determined by the user. If the user should find need of this tool he will need to know those variables which in any sense of my imagination means that he will have figured out what he needs for a sump in the first place.

let us discuss the word sump for a short time real quick. You use it to refer to a wet dry trickle filter. I used it when you tried to use my words against me in a quote as exactly what it is, a place to store excess overflow. This nomenclature is normally used in water situations. The sump is in fact used to house excess water for a number of reasons and occasions, the filter part of a wet dry trickle filter is used to address the mechanical and bio load of the tank. You must account for Bio Load, Mechanical Load, and volume of water. You CAN NOT calculate these values without knowing what the load is. If the hobbyist already know these values, then your calculator is useless as they will already know what they need. The problem then lies with the hobbyist who doesn't know. They will use the tool without these variables and WILL end up making errors.

You also want to argue with me on the fact that Bio Media is calculated on volume rather than surface area. You are dead wrong thinking that bio media is calculated on volume and you should honestly do your research before making an argument in favor of volume vs surface area.

You have programmed the calculator to calculate the sump if the user already knows the variables. This is exactly what I say is the problem. Anybody who actually needs to use this calculator to find the correct size for their "sump" will not know these values. People who know these values will not need this calculator.

What's even more hysterical, and I do not mean funny, is that you state that the calulator can calculate everything based on area or volume. You even go so far as to state that it can calculate on area the correct size of the sump. I will guarantee that the water capacity of your sump is determined by the volume of water above the waterline of your overflow as well as what is contained as a minimum value in the sump and whatever is in your pipes. If you have a volume of 250 gallons vs 200 gallons, that makes a severe difference to the volume of water your "sump" can handle.

You've put a lot of effort into your project, yet you want to shove it down peoples throat as gospel. you make the best arguments against it with your own statements. I'll leave it to you however to find a reason to belittle what I've said merely quoting you.

Let me put it this way:

If I already know the bio load of my tank, I do not need the calc.
If I already know the excess volume of water I will need due to many circumstances including overlof depth, I don't need your calc.

However,
If I do know know the bio load of my tank, your calculator MIGHT give me wrong information.
If I do know the volume of water that will drain from the tank if god forbid I have a power outage, your calc MIGHT not give me the information I need.
-----This is because you ask me to know this information to begin with, and, as stated before, if I know this I absolutely do not need your calc.

What people need are knowledgeable hobbyists to talk to and get information from, NOT a calc that CAN and WILL in some cases give bad advice or sadly "FACT" in the inexperienced hobbyists mind.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through to come up with a calculator that is used for such an small purpose. Most people who build thier own sumps are building with parts that they either already have or can get relatively cheap. It would be impossible to figure in all the variables actually need to give someone a solid idea about what they are needing.

Sounds like we just need to educate people about the uses and abilities of sumps. Then let them make the decision on what they have to have for their tank.

You make Rube Goldberg very sad.

 

[metalyx]

Ooooh boy do I love a good forum feud!

In the end we really have to ask the question, who would benefit most from this sort of a tool? Odds are on the person with a lot of money but a little personal interest. I hate to say it, but are we not looking for the keepers of monster fish? Not for the usual aquarist? Those who could use info don't need to because we all pick this info up on the way. Kind of like a drug addict is a critic of drugs so to do we do what must be done. For all of those who don't, great. Casual fish owners are what keep the trade alive for the rest of us. If everything we got lived forever, none of us would have anything.

Can we not end this tiff? Functional advice forums, not religious debate.

Swim on.

 

[Nic]

think ill stick to just good old common sence and keep build my own with nothing more than something to draw on and maybe a cig..... good luck selling it...

 

[CHOMPERS]

Just a side note, when Paul Allen and Bill Gates were working out the bugs in Windows, they didn't give it to a bunch of computer wizards and ask them what problems a novice would have using it. Paul Allen gave it to his mother and asked her to use it. She then told him of the quirks, problems, and things that didn't make sense.

 

[Nic]

Just a side note, when Paul Allen and Bill Gates were working out the bugs in Windows, they didn't give it to a bunch of computer wizards and ask them what problems a novice would have using it. Paul Allen gave it to his mother and asked her to use it. She then told him of the quirks, problems, and things that didn't make sense.

are you saying there is a version of windows with no bugs or problems??? how much is it and when can i get a copy..


good idea to the thread starter.... but it is obsolete to me.... i do all this in my head daily... simplest way to size your sump is how big can you fit in your stand just MHO.....