gross anatomy

[MadRussian79]

One other thing comes to mind for 3M Colored Quartz. If you have brown or tan colored sand you may not have chromium or cobalt in it at all. These are both colorants along with titanium and ferric oxide and carbon. The brown sand should be primarily a mix of titanium and ferric oxides and carbon.

I'd try to eliminate other issues before settling on the sand.

 

[amazongirl]

Jus reading this thread now.

First thing I have to say is that I'm really impressed that when your ray died that you cut it open in an attempt to learn more. Well done! The more you do this (and I realize that is probably your hope not to do this often) the better you will get at recognizing things that might be a problem.

Second- I wouldn't worry about small amounts of sand in the gut. If it is chuck full then the ray could have been impacted, but as David mentioned there are some theories that some species may eat sand to help with digestion and even if that is not the case the ray is eating food off the bottom. It not like it can wash it before it eats!

I looked at the pic you posted with the contents of the sand you are using. I personally would also be wary of using it, especially with a ray. Why take a chance? Elasmos are sensitive to many things that bony fish can tolerate. I'd also be wary of the petrolleum product in here and all the dyes.

The silicate warnings you see on bags are for human health and the concern is inhalation and damage to the lungs. Silicates per say are not bad, although there have been many discussions of potential abrasion depending on the roundness of the grains that doesn't need to be rehashed here.

Lastly, there is no way to look at 1 picture of a liver and say that there is damage due to viral hepatitis. There are only about a gazillion things that could cause liver damage (and that's assuming I pic even demonstrates this!). Pathologists look at slides of liver tissue under a microscope and still can't always tell cause.

Good learning experience for you. I'm impressed!

 

[ajb1971]

sorry for the loss Jason but it has made an interesting thread.

Jason,,his 1/2 sister passed (in May) & she had the same symptons (swollen backside), I thought she passed from being impacted or constipation. Had you already converted over to the 3M prior to me picking her up?

 

[spotfin]

cool . a new reason to drink daily .

the conversation seemed to get stuck on chromium .
ok . as far as i saw there was a big list of chemicals . that alone would make me say no to the sand . but wether it is the actual cause or not is a differnt matter. certainly even if you hadnt had problems with your rays . i would still be concerned about adding that sand to my aquarium .

yes i would feel much happier adding riversand than somethign thats been tampered with to make it suit a different purpose and tampered with by adding lots of chemicls .

the fact that your other ray is showing similar signs could say alot of things.

has that ray been in the tank as long ? have there been any new additons at all ? whats changed recently to make this happen if not ?

something has made this happen .

its very possible that its not the sand causing it . but still i wouldnt be adding it to my tank after seeing the big list of chemicls in it and a bunch of warnings designed for humans let alone for something much more sensitive

i hope you find out what it is and i hope you are able to share it with us . i hope the other rays are ok

The motoro was cb by me last year. The hystrix were added this past Jan/Feb. I added the sand last Nov/Dec I think.
There haven't been any changes to the tank since adding the hystrix.

Jus reading this thread now.

First thing I have to say is that I'm really impressed that when your ray died that you cut it open in an attempt to learn more. Well done! The more you do this (and I realize that is probably your hope not to do this often) the better you will get at recognizing things that might be a problem.

Second- I wouldn't worry about small amounts of sand in the gut. If it is chuck full then the ray could have been impacted, but as David mentioned there are some theories that some species may eat sand to help with digestion and even if that is not the case the ray is eating food off the bottom. It not like it can wash it before it eats!

I looked at the pic you posted with the contents of the sand you are using. I personally would also be wary of using it, especially with a ray. Why take a chance? Elasmos are sensitive to many things that bony fish can tolerate. I'd also be wary of the petrolleum product in here and all the dyes.

The silicate warnings you see on bags are for human health and the concern is inhalation and damage to the lungs. Silicates per say are not bad, although there have been many discussions of potential abrasion depending on the roundness of the grains that doesn't need to be rehashed here.

Lastly, there is no way to look at 1 picture of a liver and say that there is damage due to viral hepatitis. There are only about a gazillion things that could cause liver damage (and that's assuming I pic even demonstrates this!). Pathologists look at slides of liver tissue under a microscope and still can't always tell cause.

Good learning experience for you. I'm impressed!

Thanks. The gut wasn't compacted with the sand, it seemed to be spread through out. In one of the pictures showing the intestine, you can see the dark clumps of sand near the end. It was easy to push out of the gut.

sorry for the loss Jason but it has made an interesting thread.

Jason,,his 1/2 sister passed (in May) & she had the same symptons (swollen backside), I thought she passed from being impacted or constipation. Had you already converted over to the 3M prior to me picking her up?

Sorry to hear she passed. Yes, she had been on the 3M sand for a few months. She never showed the symptons though.

 

[ajb1971]

Before your's passed, was he occasionally act like he was dry-heaving or coughing?

 

[Nic]

contact a local university.... this way you can see about using your next dead ray as a class project... works out very nice to have more people (better knowledge) able to do more tests than we can do at home... most of the time a teacher will welcome it and it will be all free of charge or very very cheap...

 

[ajb1971]

contact a local university.... this way you can see about using your next dead ray as a class project... works out very nice to have more people (better knowledge) able to do more tests than we can do at home... most of the time a teacher will welcome it and it will be all free of charge or very very cheap...

Nic!, awesome idea, I'm ashamed of myself because I live less than 5mins from U-Mass and never thought of this and it would be educational and I, myself can't perform an autopsy due to the fact I have limited use of my hands.

Thanx for the great idea.

 

[Nic]

Nic!, awesome idea, I'm ashamed of myself because I live less than 5mins from U-Mass and never thought of this and it would be educational and I, myself can't perform an autopsy due to the fact I have limited use of my hands.

Thanx for the great idea.

none of this is rocket science.... lots of people make fish out to be soo hard and complicated... simple is always best even with a microscope i dont have the means to ID etc... everything that can/could be wrong... a biology class does though since they have lab.... lots of talk of why we should be doing this stuff but its not really that easy for the average person.. make friends with the professor and you will get the right answer when ever you need it... like i said gives the class a learning experience and you a answer... but believe me... sometimes you wanna go for the shot in the dark cause you really dont wanna know what you have

 

[DavidW]

What you want is a Vet pathology lab.
You are in MA, Cornell is one of the best in the N.E.
I used U. MISS vet path lab, dept of warm water diseases.
Most places will do the work for free or for a nominal fee.
You will need to be able to send the dead animal in formaldehyde, shipping gets a bit pricey as you can imagine ( weight and hazmat) . You must NOT freeze the dead animal as that destroys a lot of pathology evidence.
You could also phone your own local vet, explain what you want and ask where he/she gets analysis done

 

[spotfin]

Before your's passed, was he occasionally act like he was dry-heaving or coughing?

No.