Hikari vs. NLS

RD.

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May 9, 2007
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Dainichi? It's a long read, but what isn't when I'm involved. :D

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2792276

I jumped in on page 6.


Shenlenco - Please go back & re-read my previous comment, then factor into the equation that there are foodstuffs that will mirror the same nutrients as fish consume in the wild. (fruits, seed, etc)

The purpose of adding a fruit & vegetable extract to the food was to glean certain naturally occurring vitamins, minerals, and bioactive compounds that are not always easy to duplicate in a test tube. These compounds simply enhance what is already a very well fortified vitamin & mineral premix that has been specially formulated for all New Life products.

With regards to garlic, it serves a purpose as well, IF used at the appropriate levels. In the case of NLS, garlic is added for its natural anti-parasistic/anti-bacterial properties.

See page 2 of the following discussion for lots of fun reading on that subject.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286658


HTH
Neil
 

shenlonco

Candiru
MFK Member
Jul 5, 2009
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:) I got ya now in place of chemical like substances or man mad stuff to get certain viamins you get that from the different fruits and veggies and stuff.... I guess that makes good sence then.
Will have to look at the other thread you linked.

RD.;4882740; said:
Dainichi? It's a long read, but what isn't when I'm involved. :D

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2792276

I jumped in on page 6.


Shenlenco - Please go back & re-read my previous comment, then factor into the equation that there are foodstuffs that will mirror the same nutrients as fish consume in the wild. (fruits, seed, etc)

The purpose of adding a fruit & vegetable extract to the food was to glean certain naturally occurring vitamins, minerals, and bioactive compounds that are not always easy to duplicate in a test tube. These compounds simply enhance what is already a very well fortified vitamin & mineral premix that has been specially formulated for all New Life products.

With regards to garlic, it serves a purpose as well, IF used at the appropriate levels. In the case of NLS, garlic is added for its natural anti-parasistic/anti-bacterial properties.

See page 2 of the following discussion for lots of fun reading on that subject.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286658


HTH
Neil
 

RD.

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MFK Member
May 9, 2007
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Correct. It's always best to get as much naturally occurring vitamins, minerals, bioactive compounds, beta carotene, etc as one can from the raw ingredients, and then fortify with a high quality vitamin & mineral premix to make up any potential post processing loss.

A very common misconception within the hobby is that ALL vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc get destroyed during the extrusion process.
That couldn't be further from the truth. As long as you process at low temps, and carefully select your raw ingredients, the vast majority of the naturally occurring nutrients will remain intact.
 

Gatorxxx420

Feeder Fish
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Mar 14, 2010
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RD.;4882871; said:
Correct. It's always best to get as much naturally occurring vitamins, minerals, bioactive compounds, beta carotene, etc as one can from the raw ingredients, and then fortify with a high quality vitamin & mineral premix to make up any potential post processing loss.

A very common misconception within the hobby is that ALL vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc get destroyed during the extrusion process.
That couldn't be further from the truth. As long as you process at low temps, and carefully select your raw ingredients, the vast majority of the naturally occurring nutrients will remain intact.
This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier and couldn't totally think of how to word it so I didn't try.

Based on ingredients it seems NLS uses more natural sources for their food to mimic the vitamins and minerals and such the fish need than other foods. Basically, they use more organic (natural) matter to create their food than their competitors. The only company that comes close that I've been able to tell by reading labels is Omega One. Which is probably the second best food out there IMHO for our fish. But since this is an NLS vs. Hikari thread, I feel like NLS is eating a nice chicken salad from a nice restaurant, while Hikari is like getting a double quarter pounder and fries from Mickey D's. Not that there is anything wrong with a double QP from time to time, it's just not something I eat regularly.
 

Calihawk

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Dec 15, 2010
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shenlonco;4882685; said:
I picked up my first fishing rod over 45 yrs ago, have fished coast to coast, and have seen most of what you see in a container of NLS in numerous bodies of native water.

You mean you have never seen any zooplankton or crustaceans (krill)?
Or fish? (herring & squid) Or seaweed, algae or micro-algae such as phytoplankton? (algae meal & spirulina)

Perhaps you didn't realize that some tropical fish are classified as frugivores, where a large part of their natural diet is fruit, seeds, and even nuts? (vegetable & fruit extract)

In the Amazon species such as Discus eat similar foods. The following is a direct quote from Heiko Bleher;


Don't know about you but i never seen this stuff near or in water anyplace i been?

Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear
Great point there, but acetametaphine isn't in our natural world but we take it too. And what about Taco Bell meat, hahahahahaha. Apples aren't native in Thailand so we call it Apples, and luv em.
 

riftvalleyman

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
May 5, 2011
5
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San Antonio, TX
Hello folks-

I have been keeping/breeding/importing/exporting African Cichlids for over 30 years now.....and I finally gave into this NLS food....I bought a jar of it.

I see all the tasty good ingredients....I see how good it is supposed to be....yet, I just dont get it. Its like everyone buys it...uses it and praises it .....like lemmings running off a cliff.....WHY??

First off, let me preface this whole "rant" with the fact that I am not slamming anyone that uses it, nor Pablo or his company. If you like it...use it.

All the fish I have...currently only 52 tanks.....had 1510 tanks at one time...yes....one thousand five hundred and ten....I had a HUGE breeding operation.

I have ALWAYS fed OSI Spirulina flake to ALL my Cichlids...and they LOVE IT....and get huge, GORGEOUS coloration, breed like fiends and are healthy as can be.

That and I rotate foods every other feeding or 2, with frozen brine, and I mix Hikari Spirulina (cichlid) and a wheat germ small pellet (which I soak first).

OK, now the "rant":

Let's look at this LOGICALLY folks, shall we?? Just cause "Joe" uses food "x" and loves it...doesnt mean that is correct.

Speaking specifically about Rift Lake Cichlids, as that is my area of expertise, I will bring a few observations that all should understand.

Hard pellet food, is NOT NATURAL....PERIOD!! In the wild, fish live in waters anywhere from 5 meters to 50 meters (on average). They RARELY if EVER, feed off the surface. EVERYTHING they eat, is in the water...the water column, or in/on the rocks or substrate.

NOTHING is hard.....NOTHING is DRY!! PERIOD!! Everything is super-saturated with water. Everything that is ingested, is in the water, hence, full of water itself.

The digestive tract of the Cichlid...which has evolved over MILLIONS of years, is designed to eat saturated foods. Only since the 1970's have they been commercially exported these for tanks and hobbyists. You CANNOT change millions of years of evolution.

This is the exact reason why fish develop gastrointestinal blockages and develop bloat and many other nasty diseases.

You cannot eat a whole steak you have to cut it up first. Swallowing a pellet, is like devouring a steak whole. I am sure you are getting the premise by now.....blah blah blah.

Just like in humans or any living thing, you need a varied diet....man cannot live on McDonalds alone.

Another HUGE point it what most people dont understand, or have been conned into believing, by fish stores and fish food producers, is that you need to feed your fish 2 to 3 times per day. WRONG!! SOOOO WRONG.

The foods that are made today are so full of protein, vitamins and other trace items, that your fish need to be fed only ONCE per day.

In the wild....fish forage ALL DAY long to get nutrition. Your current food provides more nutrition in one feeding that a Wild fish would get in 2 to 3 days of foraging. It is a competition to survive.

Contrary to popular belief....if you feed less, your fish are more healthy. Just like in humans....if you decrease your caloric intake, you lose weight. Losing weight effects about 104 systems in your body....and your health and immune system is boosted.

Fat fish have health problems...low immune systems and fatty build ups around testes and ovaries. This results in lower egg production, lower semen count and less frequent spawns.

I see all these pictures of people proudly displaying their fish...lol...they are all FAT. A cichlid should NEVER have a fat belly EVER. Do some research, look at books, youtube videos, etc, of LAKE FISH. They all have flat stomachs. They all look fit and thin. Thats a healthy fish. Overfeeding kills.

Lastly, and I apologize for the length, but you need to know all the aspects of fish keeping. More important than ANY food, whatever you feed...is WATER QUALITY!! PERIOD!!

More issues arise from poor water quality than any other reason. Here are the facts. Water changes promote health, lower stress, boost immuno-functions, and encourage growth.

Fish secrete a hormone, that is "read" by all other fish in the area, that lets them know if the population is too large or small. Thus, will stunt or retard growth or maturation, based on levels of that hormone.

By doing water changes, you not only remove the Nitrate and other dissolved solids, but you remove the hormone as well. So your FISH GROW.

The creation of the solid pellet is to make many things easier for the hobbyist. As to not foul the water, etc etc etc. It makes a lazier hobbyist. It promotes and fosters the idea that flake is dirty and pellet is cleaner. So, I can feed more often (as prescribed by the food company/vendors) - they WANT you to feed more....they SELL MORE FOOD that way. ...and....they will SELL MORE FISH too....in the long run, as your FAT fish....will die.

You want gorgeous, healthy, colorful fish...that breed and have bigger spawns and healthier fry? Then get up off the couch and do your water changes. EVERY SATURDAY...make it a religion....actually 2 to 3 times a week is better.

You can NEVER do enough water changes. There is never a time when its too much. Water changes drive growth. Watch your fish get huge fast. Its not the food...its the water....PERIOD!!

Anyhoo...Sorry for the long rant....I could go on and on, but this is longer than I intended it to be.

I hope I have helped enlightened some or all of you....if you do as I say...You WILL have healthier, happier fish.

Take care all.....(now...turn off the TV and do that water change!!) LOL!!
 

cacichlids

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 20, 2011
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I used to feed my cichlids Hikari Cichlid Gold and Bio-Gold+... loved em, but Bio-Gold+ is only available as a floating pellet for large cichlids, I find that to be a problem if you have growouts or cichlids that don't eat from the surface.

I tried NLS recently and I must say I'm impressed with the results, don't think I'm going back to any other brand now... both growth and color are way way way better than anything I've tried by Hikari.
 

Gruff Master

Jack Dempsey
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Oct 27, 2009
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www.alexteralbury.com
Riftvalleyman, I'm not going to get into the NLS vs X again. As said in the numerous other threads floating on this site about the same subject, it has been done to death. I'll let another poor soul take up that fight. People have the right to feed what they want to feed and so they will. You make some good points but most of the maintenance and care advice that you gave are already common practices for most of the people here. It's good to learn from each other. That's what this site should be about in the first place. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with everyone. I'm sure that it will help other members.
 

riftvalleyman

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
May 5, 2011
5
0
0
San Antonio, TX
Sorry gang....

I didnt take the time to read through the other 34 PAGES of replies....and had no clue it was done to death.

Anyhoo....it was more about the pellet vs. flake for me....pellet is not natural, was my main point....then I took off on the rant.

Sorry for the wasted time I guess.
BUT, you folks here are in the minority....BECAUSE you are educated through the boards.

Most are ignorant or get bad info from bad or uninformed sources.

I will not reply to this again....I too, and a lil sick of the NLS is sooo great threads. I know what works best....I will stick with that.

Take care all-

Chris
 
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