Spin-off Thread: How does Kensfish Food Stack Up Against NLS?

[TheCanuck]

No hard feeling at all. And I'm sorry for the moron thing. I'm a bit protective of my wife!!

You are doing nothing but assuming. There are plenty of dog foods that cost way over $50 a bag. I said we do not buy the most expensive dog food. How in the world did you get me saying colorful fish and turn it into fish tatooing? Certain dogs can live perfectly healthy on cheaper foods and some do very poorly. You really need to match the proper food on a per dog basis as each animal often has it's own special needs. Also all of those things you listed you can get from your local grocery store from human foods as well. Enough of anything is poison.

Also reading the back of the lable means nothing without knowing each ingredients effect on a fish. One food may be great for one type of fish and deadly for the next.

All of this is way off topic anyway. Sorry OP, nothing more from me on this unless it pertains to your original poste. I shouldn't have gotten caught up in this anyway.

we can both agree on this then...

"""I think the best judgement of success with a food is reading the back and figuring out the best ingrediants for your pet."""

""somtimes personal research can work out better than a someone making money off you by suggestion a product"""

cu

 

[jgentry]

also i will note, i do aplaud a vet that is very caring. But they still do work for a conspiracey comapany that in the end is only about money. ALL medical fields are this way and nothing will change that anytime soon.

Nothing could be truer. Pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment providers are killing everyone with the insane price jackups. Soon enough we will all have to just stay home and die instead of going to the doctor because we can't afford.

Sorry, last off topic comment.

 

[jgentry]

we can both agree on this then...

"""I think the best judgement of success with a food is reading the back and figuring out the best ingrediants for your pet."""

""somtimes personal research can work out better than a someone making money off you by suggestion a product"""

cu

Yes, I agree with that. But it all hinges on the person doing the research and reading up getting accurate info and them knowing enough about there animals needs to fullfill them properly. Most of the time the fish/pet owner does not know these things and is not educated in that field enough to make the proper choice. Sometimes the people that are suposed to be educated do not know these things either unfortunately so you really have to be careful who you trust and the info you believe. To often there are finaincial reasons behind there recommendations like you have pointed out.

 

[RD.]

Just for the record, I am not a rep for New Life International, nor do I work for them in any capacity. I work for myself.

I share the information that I have in the hopes of possibly improving fellow hobbyists fish keeping experiences, and have done so for as far back as I can remember, and not just in the area of nutrition.
Also, I do my best to add references from non-biased accredited sources & studies where possible, just so that no one thinks that I make this stuff up as I go along.

 

[jgentry]

Just for the record, I am not a rep for New Life International, nor do I work for them in any capacity. I work for myself.

I share the information that I have in the hopes of possibly improving fellow hobbyists fish keeping experiences, and have done so for as far back as I can remember, and not just in the area of nutrition.
Also, I do my best to add references from non-biased accredited sources & studies where possible, just so that no one thinks that I make this stuff up as I go along.

And I appreciate that!! I have learned several things from this thread.

 

[kdrun76]

I would like to see another food rep spit out what this guy does. They couldn't, because they work for a money saving company at the cost of your fish's health over a long period of time. All they have is price, and they ride it well. Once again the food you feed is up to you and he stated that, you can feed what every you want. But keep in mind your saving money at the cost of your fish's health, quit trying to be ignorant to that. Accept it and please don't think by ripping apart facts and true research of foods with retarded opinions will make you fish live longer.

.

Pardon me here, but you are repeatedly attacking people that are dedicating their time to helping. I am not sure I qualify as a "food rep" so I guess I haven't been directly attacked. I don't work for a $$ saving company at the cost of anyone's fish health.

The fish feeds I have formulated, tested and patented are not mass produced and are not available to the public for purchase. I am a scientist, a researcher, I have gone to great lengths to formulate "recipies" that are shelf stable, palatable, nutritious, digestible, and yield superior growth and fecundity for farm raised species. My feeds are not currently in production largely because the cost to manufacture them exceeded what farmers were willing to pay. I made really good food, but I was not able to make it cheap enough for it to compete with other products on the market.

I got out of this industry 10 years ago when I began a different career path. I sold the last of my patents in 2006 to what I consider the top research school in this country for animal nutrition. That is right, my patents were bought by a university, not by a corporation. I am that true researcher, I don't have "retarded opinions" and I would put the health and longevity of any of my fish against yours any day.

Stay in school, learn some humility. Personal attacks will get you no where.

I wish I had the time to help RD with his mission here. We don't see eye to eye on everything, but we can and will move past that. While you are having your ranting fit and degrading and belittling people at random there are people on this board dedicating hours and hours of effort into helping for no profit and apparently for no thanks either.

 

[Toby_H]

^^Great post all but one part...

...apparently for no thanks either.

Thanks to everyone who put time and effort into sharing their education on this topic... please excuse those who only have opinions to share...

 

[Freezekougra]

Why don't we try to make our own food? I made a thread about DIY frozen foods and got no replies.

1)We get to choose what we want to add. Apparently, with my limited knowledge, lots of brand name companies are mixing random junk into their fish food to save money. When you make your own food, you can choose exactly what you want to add.

2)You get to vary your food. Say you buy 5lbs of reputable "cichlid food" at once to save money. I fail to see how a uaru(much more veggies in diet) and a dovii could both thrive on this same formula.

3)It's CHEAP. I know a lot of people here buy food from the supermarket to feed their fish. My suggestion with frozen food is simply blending these foods together. The only added cost is gelatin or agar.

4)You can make multiple types of frozen foods for variation. And then you could always toss in frozen/live treats like bloodworms, blackworms, and nightcrawlers.

Here are the first half of the ingredients in NLS according to someone who posted on the first page.

" Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach),"

You can easily get whole wheat flour, squid, garlic, and ALL of the vegetable/fruit extract at the supermarket. Not sure if the herring meal is just added filler, but if it's not...the supermarket has a huge selection of fish. Don't some people here on MFK buy silversides to feed their fish?
I'll admit I don't think my supermarket sells krill, but you can substitute with other seafood like shrimp or prawns. For the spirulina...you can buy powder off kensfish or ebay. If you are concerned about lack of added vitamins(although I don't see fish in the wild needing those), you can buy liquid vitamins from manufacturers such as Kents.

Many people here buy shrimp by the pound and feed it as a staple to their fish. Many people here have fish that WON'T ACCEPT PELLETS, and they all manage, don't they?

 

[RD.]

For one, it's messy as hell, and very hard on water quality.
Been there, done that.

More importantly, any premium quality commercial food has been scientifically developed to meet all of the nutritional demands of a fish, not just mixed up willy nilly with no idea of what the final outcome is.
Don't take this personal, but by your very own comments you have shown to have a serious lack of the basic fundamentals of fish nutrition.

You don't know if herring meal is a filler?
You don't see wild fish as requiring vitamins & minerals?

Yet you feel that you can formulate a feed that is superior to a food such as NLS?

Ok, go for it.

 

[Freezekougra]

For one, it's messy as hell, and very hard on water quality.
Been there, done that.

More importantly, any premium quality commercial food has been scientifically developed to meet all of the nutritional demands of a fish, not just mixed up willy nilly with no idea of what the final outcome is.
Don't take this personal, but by your very own comments you have shown to have a serious lack of the basic fundamentals of fish nutrition.

You don't know if herring meal is a filler?
You don't see wild fish as requiring vitamins & minerals?

Yet you feel that you can formulate a feed that is superior to a food such as NLS?

Ok, go for it.

"Apparently, with my limited knowledge,"(quote from my first post)
Yes, I already said, and will say again...I am very limited in knowledge. But then there is this thing called a FORUM at www.monsterfishkeepers.com, and I can post a thread to ask questions about how to formulate a good mix of frozen food. My post was simply a suggestion for people to start thinking about the idea of making DIY frozen food, NOT a guide on how to do it. To put it in a different way, I am suggesting the idea because I want feedback for myself on how to make a good diet. As I already mentioned in my previous post...I made a thread on DIY frozen food. It was asking for advice on how to make a good formula on DIY frozen food.

You don't see wild fish as requiring vitamins & minerals?
I was talking about added vitamins and minerals. Looking at the list of NLS ingredients(posted by you), the lower half of the list is simply vitamins/minerals added into the pellet. Posted right here:

"Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Choline Chloride, Copper Proteinate, Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate."

So, are you telling me that some dude runs around in oceans and rivers injecting these vitamins/minerals into wild fish?

any premium quality commercial food has been scientifically developed to meet all of the nutritional demands of a fish

What is your definition of a premium quality food? As mentioned by somebody in this thread, "premium" is simply a term slapped onto a product to make it look good.

go to the front page of hikarausa.com and you will see this "Hikari, the "originator" of premium aquatic diets has been copied by many, but equaled by none." So that means that Hikari is the best diet out there, right? Apparently not.

If anything, I think you're just trying to be a salesperson for NLS. You repeatedly bash hikari on their forums. Now normally, I would think it's completely normal for somebody to be concerned about what they're spending their money on - but you take it to the extreme.

Your thread "Massivore Options" was created on 2/20/2010.
People suggested that you call them, but you refused to.
On 7/9/2010, nearly FIVE months later, I decided to contact Hikari via email about their subforum(not your specific thread), and got a reply in 30 minutes! I even suggested that 'you'(or anybody with questions) email Hikari to get a quick reply. You still decide to respond in a post rather than by email...seems to me like you just want people on this forum to ditch Hikari and start paying for NLS. 5 months of time wasted and you still can't be bothered to call or at least email them? sure.(sorry if the end sounds like a personal attack...just stating my opinion, but I don't mean to be offensive)