My Gar ...had it three yrs.21 inches.
Been in a 35 gal til last week.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/Skunkxx/gar.jpg
Been in a 35 gal til last week.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/Skunkxx/gar.jpg
who has the largest florida gar?
- Thread starter KNH
- Start date
xander;4445494; said:
Bro, i think ya'll pretty much agree to disagree.. I understand Sol is all about the science side of it.. But we ALL still learn more everyday.. There is no absolutes in fish keeping.. If it can be done i say Kevin has the tools.
If you guy's are thinking KNH or myself are just trying to start a internet tuff guy contest your wrong... Its just odd to me that one or two people are the gar "experts" and the whole Gar forum sees it as set in stone..
Myself JMO, Think you can out think the room. We do it alot in fish keeping.. I've killed WAY to many fish doing the "right" thing. I think keep it simple.. I prefer the common sense route. I killed a massive GATF because it was in a tank to small.. And Gar are skittish just like them. I know your going to say the deal.. Gar need smaller tanks and all that... At the end of the day.. Its just what some cat on the Internet is saying. The Gar KNH has have the best captive home they could ask for..
BTW I get the feeling like ya'll think hes power feeding? I've not seen him say that. Or even herd him talk about power feeding? I'm pretty sure they eat once a day just like his other fish.. I dout hes jamming food down there throat so they will grow...
Not sure why Sol is getting pissy? Not everybody thinks the same bro.
I mean no harm or to piss you guy's off. X and I go back a way's and i really respect him as a fish keeper. And ive read alot of what Sol posts up. And he seems like a really smart dude... But just not everybody thinks the same is all im saying..
Sorry Kevin if i jacked ur thread up... Bump for Big Florida pic's.
just to hit the lighter stuff before getting into the heavier stuff:
- i'll be a Miami fan this weekend for sure
- Richard, you know i'm a Spartans fan when they're playing OSU...and pretty much anyone besides Michigan.
- us UM fans have to enjoy the opening win...we all know how the past two years have been, BUT...
...we still have more wins than ANY of your teams
that being said, i'm putting my comments in red here:
again, we're all here to learn, and we're here to help share what we know too. you can definitely shoot for growing out that yearling 24" Florida gar...i'm just conveying the fact that it's not going to happen and trying to explain why.--
--solomon
- i'll be a Miami fan this weekend for sure
- Richard, you know i'm a Spartans fan when they're playing OSU...and pretty much anyone besides Michigan.
- us UM fans have to enjoy the opening win...we all know how the past two years have been, BUT...
...we still have more wins than ANY of your teams
that being said, i'm putting my comments in red here:
BigJ;4445550; said:Bro, i think ya'll pretty much agree to disagree.. I understand Sol is all about the science side of it..
i'm mainly about the science side of it, but understand i've been keeping fishes as a hobbyist for quite some time too...and you'd be surprised how much one side can learn from the other. several of us here work on both sides of that unfortunate fence between the two.
But we ALL still learn more everyday..
i definitely agree. specifically speaking of gars, there is a lot more to learn than there is with many other fishes that have been kept for much longer (or more widely) in the hobby.
There is no absolutes in fish keeping.. If it can be done i say Kevin has the tools.
well, there are some absolutes in fish-keeping...if you don't dechlorinate your water with an early stage YOY gar you will kill it. but i know what you mean
that being said, it's great that you support your friend and all, but several of us have had the tools or know people who have the tools to do this, but trust me when we say there are limits based on the biology and ecology of the fish. you're not going to raise a 3' long goldfish because they just don't get that big. you're also not going to raise a 10' gator gar in the home aquaria.
If you guy's are thinking KNH or myself are just trying to start a internet tuff guy contest your wrong... Its just odd to me that one or two people are the gar "experts" and the whole Gar forum sees it as set in stone..
normally i try to keep egos out of this, but i gotta say you guys are the newbs coming into this forum. those of us who claim to have half an idea what we are doing when it comes to gars (and again, there is MUCH to be learned) actually have been working with them for quite some time. i don't tout myself (or Richard) as an expert in many things, but when it comes to gars, i do find your "quotes" insulting.
we take time out of our own research to help others out in the forum, and i think many can vouch for that. our main goals for gars in the hobby are to expand upon the understanding of that fish group in the hobby and proper care AND to share what we've learned through research to improve their husbandry overall. don't think that several members would just blindly listen to us if there wasn't at least some history of being able to back it up or get results.
Myself JMO, Think you can out think the room. We do it alot in fish keeping.. I've killed WAY to many fish doing the "right" thing. I think keep it simple.. I prefer the common sense route. I killed a massive GATF because it was in a tank to small.. And Gar are skittish just like them. I know your going to say the deal.. Gar need smaller tanks and all that...
At the end of the day.. Its just what some cat on the Internet is saying. (nope, we have solid evidence and experience to back that up with respect to gars...do you?) The Gar KNH has have the best captive home they could ask for...(i'm sure they have a good home, but saying "the best" is a superlative you're not qualified to use in this case...but you're welcome to your opinion).
BTW I get the feeling like ya'll think hes power feeding? I've not seen him say that. Or even herd him talk about power feeding? I'm pretty sure they eat once a day just like his other fish.. I dout hes jamming food down there throat so they will grow...
Not sure why Sol is getting pissy? Not everybody thinks the same bro.
definitely understand (and know) that not everyone thinks the same. i will admit that it is frustrating when people are confronted with facts, experience, research, and common sense and still think the opposite...especially when it's one's area of "expertise". this is surprisingly similar to the mindset of those who think global climate change doesn't exist...
I mean no harm or to piss you guy's off. X and I go back a way's and i really respect him as a fish keeper. And ive read alot of what Sol posts up. And he seems like a really smart dude... But just not everybody thinks the same is all im saying..
Sorry Kevin if i jacked ur thread up... Bump for Big Florida pic's.
again, we're all here to learn, and we're here to help share what we know too. you can definitely shoot for growing out that yearling 24" Florida gar...i'm just conveying the fact that it's not going to happen and trying to explain why.--
--solomon
Isn't this "I have a big tank so will get big fish" opinion very close to the Proven myth of "fish grow to the size of the tank" ?
Really I see no evidence in any of my work that a big tank with some fancy drip thingy will make any part of a difference in the growth of a fish that one could not accomplish with other equipment and in smaller systems. Growth of gar is pretty much as Sol described earlier. If you want to try for big gar then the technique you use is one of periodic growth (much as they do naturally) and not one of consistent artificial growth, as is more common with captive gars in aquaria.
Big tanks with fancy equipment do not change a fishes biology or genetics... Equipment factors are actually rather irrelevant in the long run if your going to ignore the requirements for growth and health in the fish anyhow.
Honestly, I find a lot of the hobbyist ideas about these fish amusing. From the big tank theory to the feeding concepts, much of it ignores the fish really and just focuses on some bizarre anthropomorphism.
Blah.... Good luck
Really I see no evidence in any of my work that a big tank with some fancy drip thingy will make any part of a difference in the growth of a fish that one could not accomplish with other equipment and in smaller systems. Growth of gar is pretty much as Sol described earlier. If you want to try for big gar then the technique you use is one of periodic growth (much as they do naturally) and not one of consistent artificial growth, as is more common with captive gars in aquaria.
Big tanks with fancy equipment do not change a fishes biology or genetics... Equipment factors are actually rather irrelevant in the long run if your going to ignore the requirements for growth and health in the fish anyhow.
Honestly, I find a lot of the hobbyist ideas about these fish amusing. From the big tank theory to the feeding concepts, much of it ignores the fish really and just focuses on some bizarre anthropomorphism.
Blah.... Good luck
Pejelajarto;4445949; said:
You think a drip dont help the growth of a fish? Its been proven over and over.. Fish just take off with good clean water. Its not rocket science... Good food, Clean water, Good tank, = Good fish...
Honestly, I find what you think as pure 100% opinion.. But we all have out own thoughts... (ill give you that)
Nobody said a word about changing biology or genetics?
It seems your on a mission to change the hobbyist to think just like you.. It aint gonna happen.. You have your opinions and we have ours. I assume you can understand that?
E_americanus;4445660; said:just to hit the lighter stuff before getting into the heavier stuff:
- i'll be a Miami fan this weekend for sure
- Richard, you know i'm a Spartans fan when they're playing OSU...and pretty much anyone besides Michigan.
- us UM fans have to enjoy the opening win...we all know how the past two years have been, BUT...
...we still have more wins than ANY of your teams
that being said, i'm putting my comments in red here:
again, we're all here to learn, and we're here to help share what we know too. you can definitely shoot for growing out that yearling 24" Florida gar...i'm just conveying the fact that it's not going to happen and trying to explain why.--
--solomon
I agree, we all have a ways to go.. Maybe we'll learn something new from KNH... And maybe not.
I guess we dont agree period... And that's fine. Were big boys. You think what you think and the same for myself... I appericate the thoughts and the discussion...
BigJ;4446417; said:I agree, we all have a ways to go.. Maybe we'll learn something new from KNH... And maybe not.
I guess we dont agree period... And that's fine. Were big boys. You think what you think and the same for myself... I appericate the thoughts and the discussion...
that's fine, as you're entitled to your opinion. what's frustrating is when people think their opinions, however incorrect or unsupported by fact/evidence/science they might be, are still correct.
gotta admit i'm pretty disappointed with your response to this discussion/debate, as we've presented a lot of solid info, and you "hobbyist experts" just have "opinions".
also, i don't think Pejelajarto said that drip systems weren't good for fish...at least we can agree to that fact (instead of stating via opinion that it is NOT the case...because that would just be ridiculous...sound familiar?)
what KNH is trying to do actually goes beyond the biological and genetic limitations of the fish in question, so in essence you guys are saying a good drip system will overcome the constraints on the species. just because you put a bluegill or Midas cichlid or senegal bichir into an awesome drip system doesn't mean it's going to reach 24" in a year...(or ever for that matter)...it's just not in the cards (or base pairs).
like you said, we can agree to disagree. you and KNH can feel free to post results in a year from now.--
--solomon