Debunked: CO2-Myth --- See tanks without carbon dioxide fertilization

[plantbrain]

Ground covers work pretty well in non CO2 tanks also, but....you cannot have other species such as stems that compete strongly. All plants will grow in non CO2 tanks.......but due to differences in their ability to sequester CO2, they compete strongly.

So some so called harder plants will grow, eg HC ground cover will grow in non CO2 tanks, but not with a lot of other species. Some species are very good at competing for CO2, whereas others are pretty wimpy at it.
In other words, the community structure matters and is limited with non CO2 enrichment, non carbon(to cover the Excel stuff as well) but not the individual species grown alone.

Ms Walstad did a few nice runs with HC lawns, I've done hair grass etc.
If I added a bunch of Vals or Egeria, or water sprite, forget it.

They'd not make it.

With CO2?

Yes......

Density dependence?
This causes issues even if the tank is a single monoculture with non CO2 vs CO2.

 

[plantbrain]

Here's Diana's tank:

http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf

The DSM I suggested when where both in Oz at a conference.

As you can see, the plants are doing pretty well after a few weeks later.

So nice open lawn like scapes can certainly be achieved without CO2. just few have tried or are "impatient"(the dreaded aquarist disease ).
All it takes is a few examples to blow a hole in a hypothesis.

 

[JasonG75]

Ground covers work pretty well in non CO2 tanks also, but....

So some so called harder plants will grow, eg HC ground cover will grow in non CO2 tanks, but not with a lot of other species.

Ms Walstad did a few nice runs with HC lawns, I've done hair grass etc.
If I added a bunch of Vals or Egeria, or water sprite, forget it.

They'd not make it.

With CO2?

Yes......

Density dependence?

This causes issues even if the tank is a single monoculture with non CO2 vs CO2.

You see that's where I am coming from. Yes Hc can live ALONE in a tank with maybe supplimenting with Excel only. But if I wanted HC with all my other plants in my 75 one would HAVE to have Co2. HC like co2 over lighting, you can grow HC with T8's as long as you have co2.

"Ground covers work pretty well in non CO2 tanks also"
Agreed...Depending on what you pick...Marsalia sp is one of the least demading ground covers, Hair grass isnt that bad but honesly I prefer dry starts for glosso and HC.

Co2 depnds on what you're looking for as stated before with demading plants. If you want LUSH Planting and demanding plants Excel or co2 is required because the livestock will not produce enough to keep the plants alive.

 

[markus]

i am pretty new to fish hobby..
started just last year in the October..
i am still confused about this c02 project..
it always makes me wonder..do us really need that??..are we putting pressure on plants to grow??...i think its like over feeding them..which no doubt results in showing good growth..because their stomach is full all the time..but overfeeding is bad too right??
fish takes the oxygen and releases c02..so is it not sufficient??..
in the wild how plants gets c02 ??..

any help would be appreciated..!!
thanks..

 

[WyldFya]

Co2 injection is necessary for certain plants. All plants need co2 to live and photosynthesize, however, the amount varies from plant to plant. Some of the plants that need more co2 come from areas with minimal water movement, causing elevated levels of co2. Others come from deep lakes where co2 levels are very low at the bottom.

 

[HarleyK]

Thanks, Wyld.

That brings us full-circle to post #1: Compatibility of your set-up with the plant species of choice. Resemblance to natural habitat is often key! Not only CO2, but also (and dare I say even more so) factors like lighting, filtration (water movement), water chemistry (which in turn also affects natural CO2 levels) need to be right for success. To follow with Wyld's example of locations: Crinum natans comes from streams and would not flourish without current even with all the CO2 in the world. Plants from shallow waters absolutely require good lighting because in their natural habitat, light travels a minimal distance thru water before reaching their leaves. That means minimal absorption. Matter of fact, most of the plants we keep come from shallow waters, some even grow emerged parts of the year. There are great photos of natural habitats and emerged plants in the book by Kasselbach (see Wyld's sticky in this forum).

HarleyK

 

[ExtraMe]

Very Nice 40 gal and 220 gal HarleyK. i hope someday my tanks would be as nice as yours.

Just wanted to share an old pic of our planted tank. Plants are thicker now
with the best light source, sunlight
no co2
no dosing of nutrients/fertz

 

[masone]

180gallon, no C02 and no ferts, I think I was even running t8s at this time. Yes growth is slower but it can be done.

 

[Good_Times]

masone, nice tank! I was curious about water changes with that heavily planted tank, you said you didn't add any ferts so i guess you didn't do any vacuum cleaning?, an did all the plants mean that you're parameters (ammonia nitrite nitrate) stayed lower for longer?

 

[jcardona1]

180gallon, no C02 and no ferts, I think I was even running t8s at this time. Yes growth is slower but it can be done.

Beautiful tank!