syndicate;3465519; said:
because they dont know its wrong, WE DO.
just because they do it dosent mean its the right thing todo.
Hybrid + close relative =???
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because they dont know its wrong, WE DO.
just because they do it dosent mean its the right thing todo.
well if its true that they were bread from breeding the hybrids with the same type of ray as the parents and not the parent its self.
then yes there looks to be alot of hard work and time gone into producing such fantastic looking rays, dont get me wrong i think there out standing! but i still wouldent use incest to create them.
next question has to be..........
HOW MUCH ARE THEY???????????????
then yes there looks to be alot of hard work and time gone into producing such fantastic looking rays, dont get me wrong i think there out standing! but i still wouldent use incest to create them.
next question has to be..........
HOW MUCH ARE THEY???????????????
T1KARMANN;3460570; said:
I have no need to do so, cause I know, that certain combinations of certain non related, but even both very ordinary, for example P14 can give extraordinarily nice pups. Now, I first want to try all possible combinations of my also NOT related and even though mostly already very nice P14
I first want to see, which combination get's the nicest pups
Because rays can as we all know, get very old, I can repeat this "best" combination once and once again for maybe the next 20 years without getting tempted to inbreed..........
BUT if I would sometimes feel the desire to stablize some certain characteristics I would unhasitatingly use the simple and common methods of line breeding by inbreeding for example a female rays son, with it's mother
Things like this have been done millions and millions of times before, for example to create all actual kinds of dog breds, cats, other pets or ANY kind of livestock (farm animals)!
WHY shall quite suddenly, the most common method of animal breeding (line breeding) be a devilish thing, simply because of
T1KARMANN;3460215; said:
T1KARMANN;3460570; said:
T1KARMANN;3463633; said:
T1KARMANN;3466590; said:
Kevaldo;3465372; said:
Sorry, but I still cannot see ANY real argument which justifies to devilish the most common method of animal breeding since ancient times
Be aware, that most animals and even fishes cannot be compared one by one with humans 
As I already mentioned, there are lots of examples of strictly inbred fishes in aquariums for dozenS of generations without mentionig ANY negative consequences!!! sharp tooth;3465634; said:
Do you really know it better than lots of scientists worldwide, which are employed in livestock breeding and even nature, to tell the stupid live on earth, what is right or wrong, simply because of your obviously, mostly unspecific feeling of beeing "wrong"
Isnt THAT what you are demanding, to play god
not so long ago i watched a program on TV about dog breeds it stated that ALL of one type of breed in the UK could be trace back to just 2 blood lines
the dogs had the DNA tested
the dog now suffer from bad liver problems hip problems pallet problems and breathing problems
do you think that when this type of dog breeder started inter breeding they also thought it wouldn't be a problem or they are thinking like some ray breeds now and don't care what happens in the future as long as they make a fast $$ now
if your inter bred pups had liver joint eye or pallet problems how would you know until the ray was dead and a autopsy was done
its a lot easier to spot problems on a dog than a ray you can take urine samples see it walking funny
their are plenty of captive breeders world wide to mix up the blood lines with no problems in the future
it has got to a stage now were many people wont buy ANY rays from Asia as they don't trust the blood lines
by all the SP rays being pumped out of Asia they are doing more damage to their ray breeding reputation than good and all the money they are investing is going to waste
i would much rather buy a ray from Europe than Asia as i stand a better chance of it being pure blood
the dogs had the DNA tested
the dog now suffer from bad liver problems hip problems pallet problems and breathing problems
do you think that when this type of dog breeder started inter breeding they also thought it wouldn't be a problem or they are thinking like some ray breeds now and don't care what happens in the future as long as they make a fast $$ now
if your inter bred pups had liver joint eye or pallet problems how would you know until the ray was dead and a autopsy was done
its a lot easier to spot problems on a dog than a ray you can take urine samples see it walking funny
their are plenty of captive breeders world wide to mix up the blood lines with no problems in the future
it has got to a stage now were many people wont buy ANY rays from Asia as they don't trust the blood lines
by all the SP rays being pumped out of Asia they are doing more damage to their ray breeding reputation than good and all the money they are investing is going to waste
i would much rather buy a ray from Europe than Asia as i stand a better chance of it being pure blood
How many generations of strict inbreed have been necessary to cause this kind of damage in those dog breeds?
Do you remeber, how long rays take to get mature compared with dogs, so how difficult is it, to create lots of generations by strict inbreed?
What do you think, since how many years, asians have noticed, that it can be profitable, to breed black rays, since 2-3-4-5 years for sure not longer, cause wc rays have ever been much cheaper!
I think, they breed rays in a mentionable scale, since the ban of September 2006, so tell me, how many generations of strict inbreed can be created since then, from which you seem to expect the same negative effects like of the dog breds you mentioned??
I you are breeding wild varieties of ray, also after many generations of inbreed, it will always be possilbe to bring some new blood into a breeding line, before negative effects occur, which is not possible in your mentioned dog example, when there are only two, already not natural specimen, from which all generations to come, have to originate from. You cannot breed a wild wolfe into a sausage dogs breeding line with bad hips....but you can easily breed a wc or for example asian P14 into a certain european or north american P14-Galaxy line, after a few generations! But, how long will it take, to create those few (4-6-8) generations of P14, 20 years, 30 years.....I am not sure, if anyone still wants to keep rays in 20 years, but dogs have been mans best friend since thousands of years and will still be mans best friend in thousands of years......
And once again, as far as I know, dogs are still mamals and no fishes
Do you remeber, how long rays take to get mature compared with dogs, so how difficult is it, to create lots of generations by strict inbreed?
What do you think, since how many years, asians have noticed, that it can be profitable, to breed black rays, since 2-3-4-5 years
for sure not longer, cause wc rays have ever been much cheaper!I think, they breed rays in a mentionable scale, since the ban of September 2006, so tell me, how many generations of strict inbreed can be created since then, from which you seem to expect the same negative effects like of the dog breds you mentioned??
I you are breeding wild varieties of ray, also after many generations of inbreed, it will always be possilbe to bring some new blood into a breeding line, before negative effects occur, which is not possible in your mentioned dog example, when there are only two, already not natural specimen, from which all generations to come, have to originate from. You cannot breed a wild wolfe into a sausage dogs breeding line with bad hips....but you can easily breed a wc or for example asian P14 into a certain european or north american P14-Galaxy line, after a few generations! But, how long will it take, to create those few (4-6-8) generations of P14, 20 years, 30 years.....I am not sure, if anyone still wants to keep rays in 20 years, but dogs have been mans best friend since thousands of years and will still be mans best friend in thousands of years......
And once again, as far as I know, dogs are still mamals and no fishes