Hybrid + close relative =???

[StefanW]

if you were guaranteed the perfect child if you had sex with your sister would you do it

Obviously, you still have not understood the main differences between humans and fishes

i wouldn't because its wrong and against the law

Dont tell me again "it's simply wrong" to inbreed fishes and it's FOR SURE not against the law to linebreed animals

the chances of it happening with rays in the wild are 100000000 - 1

Oh man, delete the last 6 or 7 zeros of your first number and it will be MUCH more likely

It's only wasted time to stay here in front of my computer to discus this topic with you, now I understood, that its simply some kind of unspecificly "wrong" to linebreed fishes and against YOUR personal law. No other than your extremists view is accepable or even worth to think about one of the most common methods of animal breeding only one second.......

I'll better to go bed now and make one more perfect child with my sister or should I maybe visit my mother first hmmmmm, I am undecisive.....which child could be more perfect
Oh ****, I forgot, that I never had a sister and my father could possibly also get very angry if I would choose the other possibility, maybe you should explain your "perfect child theory" to him in forward, then he would perhaps comply........

 

[T1KARMANN]

the chances of inter breeding having a problem in rays compared to dogs are higher in rays

rays are mature at about 2 years dogs are mature at about 9 months old

when people buy a dog they buy just one dog from a breeder in most cases

when people buy rays normally its a pair from the same breeder mean they will be inter breeding as soon as they buy the rays and they reach 2 years of age

looks like i have different morals to you if you think inter breeding is a good thing then carry on with it i for one will not be inter breeding at any point

me and another p14 breeder hear in the UK will be having pups at about the same time (2 months from now)

if anyone wants unrelated p14 pups come to the UK

 

[StefanW]

if you think inter breeding is a good thing

It looks like you are not able to read properly!
I never said interbreeding is a good thing, I said, interbreeding IN FISHES has ever been very common in animal breeding and also in ornamental fish breeding and I said, that it's surely not as bad as you think by far, what has been proven many times in a lot of fishy examples!

then carry on with it

CARRY ON why carry on, I've never done linebreeding or any other kind of inbreeding ever!!!

i for one will not be inter breeding at any point

Congratulation to your abyss of ignorance and well developed narrowmindedness!

me and another p14 breeder hear in the UK will be having pups at about the same time (2 months from now)
if anyone wants unrelated p14 pups come to the UK

Aaaah, finally, now you told us why it is so evil to be not as strictly as you are against for example linebreeding, even if someone is not doing it!

It's because you want to earn more money with your pups, it's simply a marketing gag when you are telling us, its bad, because it's simply not right or wrong what you really want to tell everyone is: "Come to the UK and buy our rays, the other ones are very likely to be disabled...!"

But this is a shoot in your own foot, because you do not want to read my posts!

Once again and please read slowly this time: MY 4 breeding males are out of 4 completely different breeding lines from 4 different breeders and their parents are all, as you are telling us, with a chance of 100000000 - 1 unrelated wc. My 6 breeding females are also out of 4 lines (not 3 as I told a few posts before, that was wrong!), which are not all the same lines than the males lines. I am only putting single males and females together controlled, WITHOUT having done inbreed ever until now. Why should I have done inbreed ever, I am not able to do linebreeding, cause I do not own any of the parents of any of my rays.
As I already mentioned, why I am only combining unrelated P14, has the reason, that I want to find out the best combination of unrelated genes and therefore I always want to know the father!

Only if I found a extraordinarily nice combination, in the next step, which should happen within the next 15 or 20 years, I would propably not hasitate, to do linebreeding.......understood now!?

So, if you want to buy unrelated and very nice P14 pups, come to southern germany and buy them out of one hand, which does controlled and unrelated P14 breeding If sometime in future, I'll have P14 pups with a inbreed factor of 50% you can be sure, that you'll be told by request, but also be sure, that one generation of strict inbreed, which means 50% of inbreed will have no negative effects on the rays themself ......
I'll have one batch in 3 weeks and two more batches in about 5 weeks and one in 10 weeks, all from 4 completely unrelated fathers and 3 unrelated females, which can be combined with 5 males out of 4 other combinated batches from June/July so every unrelated combination is possible

WOW, that topic is really funny......

 

[StefanW]

I am sorry, but I cannot stop thinking about your defiance, you want a gene challange between UK and other breeders worldwide to tell everyone, that your UK pups are better than all other, only because of your desperate struggle against reality and your in my eyes much to strict rejection of common and effective long term animal breeding strategys

This is no good idea, as far as I can see

Even the P14 gene pool in my cellar must be bigger than the whole P14 gene pool on your island Fortunately I and other fellow breeders are open minded enough to use this gene pool

The last word is yours, I am finished, have been vexed enough.....

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

I wonder what some of your beliefs are?

whether you believe in Adam&Eve or evolution every single animal is inbreed.

Whether animals (including human) just appeared out of thin air or they evolved there was a time when there was only 2 and now there are billions.

On a recent TV show on discovery channel a scientist said that on a minute DNA level that all humans were linked together and have the same DNA origin.

HMM how did that happen brothers? lol

 

[sharp tooth]

hey if you feel the will to bring these poor creatures into the world buy inbreeding go ahead its not like me or anyone else can stop you.

i wont be buying non of your pups.

i dont care how much you try to justify that getting a pup to breed with its mother is fine.

as far as im concerd its wrong. i dont need to have scientific proof to know its wrong.

any thing can happen to a ray as it gets older but why increase the risk of health problems just cause you want it to look nicer.

its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! isnt it.

 

[StefanW]

i wont be buying non of your pups.

You do not need to buy my NOT inbred pups, I have not the slightest problems in selling them!!! I would not even sell one to you

i dont care how much you try to justify that getting a pup to breed with its mother is fine.

It seams, that you are also not able to read or is my english really so bad, that it cannot be understood
I have never done inbreed and have enough completely different P14 bloodlines only in my own tanks, that I can easily avoid inbreed for the next decades!!!! I have never been trying to tell anyone, that doing inbreed, even once and once again is a good thing, I am just trying to tell that it's not an as big problem in fishes, as you and your friend desperately want to make everyone believe and that this has been proofen many times in breeding ornamental fish before. So using the method of linbreeding rays should also be no bigger problem, than it is in other animals and even fishes. I WOULD do it, if I would think it could be necessary to tighten certain desired charakteristics and would have not the slightest doubt, that this would not have ANY slightes negative consequences for the health of the pups.

But I have not done it ever until now and I have not planned to do it, at least not in the near future. The reason simply is, because I want to mix up all my bloodlines in any possible way, to see which one is the best combination and I have not yet found any necessity for me to do in- or linebreeding and until then, yes, it's also my opinion, that avoiding interbreeding cannot be wrong but in my eyes, it's not the only possible and the only acceptable way to strictly refuse its legitimacy in breeding fishes, like you do.
If you and your friend are trying to making people believe here once and once again that I am doing inbreed, only to damage my reputation, this is nothing but telling dirty lies

Believe, what you want, I know you and your friends ulterior motives.

its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! isnt it.

Yes, it's really very, very obvious, that this is yours and your friends only desire! Creating an putatively advantage on the market for pups, by frightening your potential buyers and doing damage to the reputation of IN YOUR EYES competitive, other breeders, by simply twisting their words here.....really a very simple, but also very unfair strategy

Are you really in the need to do this? Are you so dependent on the money you get from your rays pups? Should'nt it initially, even also in your case have been a hobby

 

[T1KARMANN]

I am sorry, but I cannot stop thinking about your defiance, you want a gene challange between UK and other breeders worldwide to tell everyone, that your UK pups are better than all other, only because of your desperate struggle against reality and your in my eyes much to strict rejection of common and effective long term animal breeding strategys

This is no good idea, as far as I can see

Even the P14 gene pool in my cellar must be bigger than the whole P14 gene pool on your island Fortunately I and other fellow breeders are open minded enough to use this gene pool

The last word is yours, I am finished, have been vexed enough.....

you are right the gene pool in your celler is bigger than that of the gene pool of p14 on our little island thats probably why im trying hard to mix up the genes

its no kind of marketing thing their is no need to market p14 they sell themselfs

no matter what you say you will never convince me that inter bgreeding is right or helpfull to future ray breeding

you can add what ever flash name you like to a p14 just because of the amount of spots it has or how you got that many spots its still just a p14

p14 galaxy royal AA+ king or what ever you want to call them now that is a marketing thing

 

[sharp tooth]

sorry, i DONT breed rays. if they do decide to breed then so be it. it would be nice yes but at the moment they are to young.
but i have done my best to make sure they are from seperate blood lines (i have tryed the best i can to do this).

if you dont do it and wont be doing it why try to justify it?

i am not trying to say anything about who`s pups are better or worse. the uk is very very samll compaired to everywere else and we donot have any breeders. just a few private collecters who happend to have pups every now and then.

this whole argument was started because i said "inter breeding" was wrong which i still stand by. you are the one who started to panic and tryed to justify it.

i have very little $$ compaired to your manny $$$$$$$$$ this is very true. i have one tank in my house for my pleasure not to make money. i have no potential buyers.

do you agree that interbreeding parents and pups should be avoided?
the only thing you gaining from doing such a thing is makeing a nicer looking ray in order to make more money from them. that is the problem that the whole world is facing, ppl doing things just to make money and screw everyone else and the consiquenses.

i have no problem buying a pup from you if you do not interbreed. i just thought because you were justifying the practice then its because you were doing it.

not that i could ever afford such rays.

 

[StefanW]

you can add what ever flash name you like to a p14 just because of the amount of spots it has or how you got that many spots its still just a p14

p14 galaxy royal AA+ king or what ever you want to call them now that is a marketing thing

The names for P14 with more spots have not been my invention!
I am also not a friend of those superdupermega-terms.....
But in my opinion, a P14 with almost 1000 spots is much nicer than a P14 with 100 or even less spots. Due to the fact that most P14 lovers seem to be of the same opinion than me, in my eyes its justifiable to create certain terms for certain kinds of different appearances of P14. Already the term P14 is not a correct scientific term and has just been created by the aquarium trade, that people know, what they are talking about and of course also a little bit for marketing reasons, just as the L-Numbers, so why not differenciate a little bit more by the number of spots?
There is no need to speak of Galaxy, Royal Galaxy or things like this, but it's usefull in for example, to know of which approximate number of spots we are talking about and the Galaxy-terms are meanwhile used to most people, unless we both think they are good or not so appropriate....