I Got My Freshwater Bumble Bee Grouper!!!

[PeacockBass]

its the next level. as far as sales pitch...hmmm...i didn't even advertise it for sale anywhere! there has been research involved in this for years already, just not many people are aware of it, and the internet is certainly not the last say so on this topic. try looking for bagana bleheri, see what you can turn up its in my tank, but not much on the web!

most of the ones on the market are farm bred in taiwan or thailand, and imported a few years back. i haven't seen much in the last year at any wholesalers. answer me this, can monodactylus, scatophagus, tetradon fluvitalius be kept in pure freshwater? some say they do better with some salt in their water, can anyone prove it? with concrete evidence? can anyone substantiate that them being in freshwater is like having chlorine gas in the air? this study of osmoregulation on fresh and salt water is old and outdated. evolution plays a big role here. i have more cutting edge stuff in my bags, but i don't know if i can release this information here any longer, if people are not able to think with an open mind. positive critique is welcomed, ignorance is dispised!

comparing Monos and scatts to a grouper is like comparing salmonids to discus. Completely different animals with completely different habbitats and traits.

You dont have any concrete information supporting your claim!!!

You bring up an interesting point here.. Evolution? Are you suggesting Evolution is taking place in the Aquarium hobby? That pure saltwater fish are evolving to live in freshwater because people are taking them out of salt and sticking them in fresh? umm...

Also, this is a debate. Not an ignorant comment war. I will dig up some information for you on O.R.

Unless this species of grouper has a way of completely altering its way of maintaining homeostasis, this is impossible.

These pictures are disturbing because they show something amazing happening yet come with no concrete information.

 

[PeacockBass]

but mono's and scat's are fish that spend a majority(if not all) in a brackish environment. You can't compare those fish to a grouper that lives in the open ocean that occasionally come into an estuary to feed.

Bingo.

 

[PeacockBass]

Most of us are guilty of ignorance But c;mon guys. What's in the textbooks is not ALWAYS right. All of us shoudl already know this especially with the fish we keep. It's all possible until proven wrong. In this case. A saltwater fish can't live in Freshwater has been proven wrong. I am very interested in Wes' views and experiences on evolution and how living things do adjust and adapt over time to new environments. Maybe some people can't accept the fact that this is happening now before their eyes and not over thousands or millions of years.

Don't give up Wes, there are more people here that would like to see what else u have in the bag than there are ignorant ones.

Its not a matter of Evolution existing or not.. Its a matter of it happening in our tanks in a VERY SHORT amount of time..

10-20 years of trying to get groupers into freshwater water is a very short time period when talking about evolution. Evolution takes many years...

Also, with evolution, animals dont addapt. Living animals dont addapt to new changes. Their OFFSPRING do, Evolution is completely random. Those born with the random abilities to live better in the ever so new changing enviornment thrive, while the others die out. a single specimen wont just addapt.. its offspring are born with different abilities. If the enviornmental change is too derastic, the species will die out.

Its not a matter of a salterwater fish living in freshwater, its a matter of this species of fish changing from saltwater to freshwater.

 

[PeacockBass]

The process of converting "saltwater" fish into "fresh" is not a revolutionary new concept.......... many people have "played" with the different technique's and have been sucessful to a certain degree.......... I remember many years there was actually a product that claims you can mix "fresh n salt" if you used that additive........ I believe it was called "green salt" or sumtin of that matter....... they advertised a Marine angelfish with a oscar in the same tank............. Anyways.... me and Wes have debated on this issue for "hours" ........... as to the degree of how far one can push the evolutionary timeline........ Many species can and have been converted from "fw to sw" due to their "adaptibility"....... Groupers/ Rays/ sharks/ clownfish/eels.........etc....... but I do not believe the fish would ever be in its "element"............ atleast in that lifetime........... the whole aquarium fish keeping hobby is a form of expressing ones self's "god complex" we try and create a underwater world in which we are the "apex" creature that controls all aspects of life.......... from the size of tank, light color, decor, flora and fauna ...... etc........ so converting fw to sw is just taking it one step further........ how far does one want to take it? how far should one take it?

interesting.

 

[The TRUST]

Its not a matter of Evolution existing or not.. Its a matter of it happening in our tanks in a VERY SHORT amount of time..

10-20 years of trying to get groupers into freshwater water is a very short time period when talking about evolution. Evolution takes many years...

Also, with evolution, animals dont addapt. Living animals dont addapt to new changes. Their OFFSPRING do, Evolution is completely random. Those born with the random abilities to live better in the ever so new changing enviornment thrive, while the others die out. a single specimen wont just addapt.. its offspring are born with different abilities. If the enviornmental change is too derastic, the species will die out.

Its not a matter of a salterwater fish living in freshwater, its a matter of this species of fish changing from saltwater to freshwater.

I agree with you there, so remeber Wes said these are famr raised and that they are in a low salinity water. So they have adapted.

 

[The TRUST]

Neal,

the reason there is no concrete information is because we are all in the new Discovery stage. So you don't have to belive it if u don't want to. This is an intelectual debate, but you need to listen to how you word your sentences. It does sound very offending, and that is why u got banned in other places, cause people kept getting offended, but that's besdies the point....... I know you don't directly mean it that way but proof read it and you will see how people can take it a different way.

I believe the Aquarium fish hobby and industry has some impact on evolution. Not to the wild individuals but to the ones that are famr raised. Fish that have been farm raised are more adaptable to newer things. Same reason as to why cichlids arevery sucessful and can adapt easily.

I don't know why you find the pictures disturbing. A picture says a thousand words. More than what can ever be describe. Like I said earlier we are all in the Discovery stage here, for me myself this is the first time in my life I have seen something like this. You should be more curious as to how this is done and not be so fast to beat down on this issue. It's like when people thought the world is flat………….

 

[The TRUST]

but mono's and scat's are fish that spend a majority(if not all) in a brackish environment. You can't compare those fish to a grouper that lives in the open ocean that occasionally come into an estuary to feed.

Hmmm ok Let's use Atlantic Tarpon then. Don't they live in the open ocean? I am sure they come to the estuaries to feed. But I have seen people keep HUGE ones in pure freshwater with no problems whatsoever. If I remember right, Aquafan had a big one in his 240G with his Arowanas. And as far as I know Tarpin are not farm bred. So the you ng were probably plucked from brakish water and then sold in the LFS and purchased by Aquafan and put in Freshwater. It grew in fresh water, thrived in freshwater and did great without any need for salt.

 

[WckedMidas]

Hmmm ok Let's use Atlantic Tarpon then. Don't they live in the open ocean? I am sure they come to the estuaries to feed. But I have seen people keep HUGE ones in pure freshwater with no problems whatsoever. If I remember right, Aquafan had a big one in his 240G with his Arowanas. And as far as I know Tarpin are not farm bred. So the you ng were probably plucked from brakish water and then sold in the LFS and purchased by Aquafan and put in Freshwater. It grew in fresh water, thrived in freshwater and did great without any need for salt.

Dont forget you got the green eels. They are born in freshwatter and go out to the ocean for there intire life cycle. Come back to fresh and breed and die off. Now the ones that get landlocked in fresh watter inviroments. never get to breed but live for i beleve i read 50 years pluss in captivity. Rock fish are a saltwater fish. and can live decent amount of times in brackish rivers. they even breed in them also.


I have no idea were i was going wityh that but u get the point

 

[The TRUST]

I have no idea were i was going wityh that but u get the point

 

[WckedMidas]

well did u get the point