• We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

Lots of pics past and present

cjdesmit said:
Nice additions Stan. I've always thought festivums to be an interesting and unique looking fish. I like how they differ from most cichlids in that they utilize the upper half of the water column. Helps fill out a tank I think.

Quick thought followed up by a question..

Like yourself, I often utilize a good amount of organic matter to scape my tanks (wood, leaves, etc.). How have you seen this to affect your water params and quality? Outside of the obvious PH altering effects, do you think it ups the overall bacteria count within the tank (both good and bad?) I often see many "sterile" looking setups here and wonder which is a better environment for the fish, health wise.
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Chris,
I have been using leaf litter for a few years now in various set ups. I have yet to find any negative effects,even when left to completely decay.
I think we are used to reading about removing leaves off live aquarium plants when they drop off or start to turn yellow or they can contribute to poor water quality . This is true of live plants.
Regarding dead leaves from trees is a different matter.
When a leaf turns brown and drops from a tree it releases sugar and other nitrogenous substances back into the tree,seals itself and drops to the ground.
These sugars and other compounds are what can have an adverse effect on water quality.
I only see leaf litter as a benifit and have never had any issues regarding their use.
As dead leaves break down they produce a fungi/biofilm that is a very good food source for many species of fish, fry and invertebrates . The leaves also have beneficial antibacterial qualities and can help make a difference maintaining health of certain soft water fishes.
 
Stanzzzz7 said:
Sorry to hear this Steve. I really hope things pick up for you mate.
I've missed your input on the forum.
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Thanks, doing much better now.

Actually have a question for you since you are an experienced thorichthys keeper.
It looks like I may have two pasionis pairs. One pair has claimed an area and started clearing the sand off the rocks. But months have gone by with no spawning. They are defending the area from other fish too.
How do I get them to spawn? Is water temperature a factor?
 
Stanzzzz7 said:
Chris,
I have been using leaf litter for a few years now in various set ups. I have yet to find any negative effects,even when left to completely decay.
I think we are used to reading about removing leaves off live aquarium plants when they drop off or start to turn yellow or they can contribute to poor water quality . This is true of live plants.
Regarding dead leaves from trees is a different matter.
When a leaf turns brown and drops from a tree it releases sugar and other nitrogenous substances back into the tree,seals itself and drops to the ground.
These sugars and other compounds are what can have an adverse effect on water quality.
I only see leaf litter as a benifit and have never had any issues regarding their use.
As dead leaves break down they produce a fungi/biofilm that is a very good food source for many species of fish, fry and invertebrates . The leaves also have beneficial antibacterial qualities and can help make a difference maintaining health of certain soft water fishes.
Click to expand...

I knew leaves, specifically Catappa leaves, were suppose to have antifungal and antibacterial properties and were looked upon as very beneficial. I've personally never used them though as I have always just collected my own which tend to be Oak, Beech, or Sycamore. So is the consensus that even other leaves (such as those I just listed) have the same beneficial effects as Catappa leaves? Will species only typically found in tannic water benefit or do you think many Central American species that reside in more riverine conditions could also benefit? I use to have leaf litter in my 135gal but when I moved up to my 220gal I never bothered to mess with them.
 
I think acidic leaves in general have antibacterial properties. I don't know of any studies comparing and various leaf types. You can get the same effect from peat and peat extract.
 
Toiletcar said:
Thanks, doing much better now.

Actually have a question for you since you are an experienced thorichthys keeper.
It looks like I may have two pasionis pairs. One pair has claimed an area and started clearing the sand off the rocks. But months have gone by with no spawning. They are defending the area from other fish too.
How do I get them to spawn? Is water temperature a factor?
Click to expand...

I'm no expert but I've kept a good number of Thorichthys over the years. From what I have observed, it often has to do with the overall environment of the tank. It seems if the tank is too "busy" they may go through the motions but never really commit as they simply do not feel comfortable enough. I have had both T. meeki and T. pasionis do this. I had what looked like 2 meeki pairs and 1 pasionis pair "form" in my 220 and while they displayed to their partners, cleaned rocks, dug pits, they simply never went through with it. I typically keep my temp at around 77-78F.
 
cjdesmit said:
I found this an interesting read, especially with the comparisons using the bar graph.

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/2016/10/28/free-tank-decor
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I just glanced through (I agree good read), but the only thing I would add is that the effect of the leaves greatly depends on your tap water parameters. If your carbonate hardness is high, the leaves will not have a significant impact on your waters pH.

Conversly, in soft water with a low carbonate hardness a smaller amount of leaves can drop the pH.
 
ahud said:
I just glanced through (I agree good read), but the only thing I would add is that the effect of the leaves greatly depends on your tap water parameters. If your carbonate hardness is high, the leaves will not have a significant impact on your waters pH.

Conversly, in soft water with a low carbonate hardness a smaller amount of leaves can drop the pH.
Click to expand...
This is very true.
In c/a biotopes where water is generally hard with a high ph and you want the leaf litter look,ph values are hardly affected.
I do believe that the beneficial bacterial qualities that the decomposition of the leaves produce can still be looked apon as a positive.
Fry love them too,as a food source and a refuge.

These melanura fry were always around leaves.
 
Toiletcar said:
Thanks, doing much better now.

Actually have a question for you since you are an experienced thorichthys keeper.
It looks like I may have two pasionis pairs. One pair has claimed an area and started clearing the sand off the rocks. But months have gone by with no spawning. They are defending the area from other fish too.
How do I get them to spawn? Is water temperature a factor?
Click to expand...


I have found thorichthys quite late starters when it comes to breeding.
I've had some pairs take up to 2 years before they spawn.(can't remember how old yours are now Steve)
Try turning the temp up a couple of degrees and feed them well for a week,followed by a large cold water change. This often triggered a spawn for me.
It can be due to the reasons Chris mentioned ,especially in inexperienced pairs.
However I have had thorichthys spawn in fairly crowded tanks. I think I had 4 pairs all with eggs at the same time once.
To be honest Steve,it's probably just a matter of time.
 
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