Spin-off Thread: How does Kensfish Food Stack Up Against NLS?

cchhcc

Feeder Fish
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May 31, 2006
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I think it's important to note that both opinions may be right. It may not make economical sense for people who have hundreds or fish to feed NLS. You may also be satisfied with the results you get with "X" brand, there are certainly lots of Hikari, Omega, Kensfish, etc. fish on this site that look just fine. We may be pairing it down so finely that there is a point of diminishing returns when one utilizes a premium brand. This may be an irrelevant conversation when talking about most bullet-proof cichlids and the like. It's just not that hard to care for such animals.

However, it is when a food company claims product superiority that a discussion like this becomes relevant. I've seen several of the companies claim to have the best this or that. However, the science doesn't support most of those companies, but it does support NLS.

Also, just because someone is a seller of a product doesn't necessarily mean their opinion is predjudiced. I would expect a vendor to defend his/her claim with statments of fact and through the supply of independent analysis. It is refreshing that RD takes the time to address and and all questions, and he does so without any air of defensiveness. One of the site sponsors is a food company, and they don't even answer questions in their own forum with any regularity. Some other sellers just cry "FOUL!" at the mere hint of a question!

RD welcomes these conversations because he knows he is at an advantage in any objective review of the science. He doesn't (like some) just make fantastic claims only to disappear from further discussion. As the saying goes, "Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing!" I think he's in a good spot to be selling something he has faith in!

Since scientific info tends to put some people to sleep, here's a little anecdotal evidence that might be of value. Go to a really good reef store, not a pet shop but a true reef specialist store. Take a look at what pelleted foods they are selling. You'll find NLS to be the pellet du jour of advanced reef keepers.

Most people, however, will buy and be satisfied based on their opinion. Besides, there are more children being raised on Chicken McNuggets than on free range chicken, so why should we expect a more discriminating spirit be utilized on your fish?

As for tests, I've done some on my own, and I find NLS to be worth the cost (though I still don't find it so expensive when bought in bulk). A friend and I laughed the other day when someone said he just bought ANOTHER 200 gallon tank........only to later say he couldn't afford NLS! Hahaha!
 

kdrun76

Piranha
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Mar 4, 2009
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Without putting a brand name on this, this is the ingredient list published for cichlid pellets:


INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).

And for algae wafers:
INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorb-l-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).



Even the all sacred NLS brand is full of "meal" products. I would much rather see ingredients list fresh products in the ingredients list rather than the highly processed and nutrient stripped "meal" products. I am not suggesting this food is perfect, but I do think its better than most on the market.

It too is made in the USA in a small family owned and run plant. 10 LBS of this food costs $112, so its nearly the same price as the NLS.
 

cchhcc

Feeder Fish
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kdrun76;4082465; said:
Without putting a brand name on this, this is the ingredient list published for cichlid pellets:


INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).

And for algae wafers:
INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorb-l-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).



Even the all sacred NLS brand is full of "meal" products. I would much rather see ingredients list fresh products in the ingredients list rather than the highly processed and nutrient stripped "meal" products. I am not suggesting this food is perfect, but I do think its better than most on the market.

It too is made in the USA in a small family owned and run plant. 10 LBS of this food costs $112, so its nearly the same price as the NLS.
It's not quite that simple, but you do make some good points, especially about "being better than most on the market." You get what you pay for, and IMO you can't get the very best results from trout chow and the like as you can from the premium foods. I'm sure you'd say you think you're getting you money's worth!


........and it's Omega. ; )
 

Nemesis

Fire Eel
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Apr 7, 2009
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kdrun76;4082465; said:
Without putting a brand name on this, this is the ingredient list published for cichlid pellets:


INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).

And for algae wafers:
INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorb-l-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).



Even the all sacred NLS brand is full of "meal" products. I would much rather see ingredients list fresh products in the ingredients list rather than the highly processed and nutrient stripped "meal" products. I am not suggesting this food is perfect, but I do think its better than most on the market.

It too is made in the USA in a small family owned and run plant. 10 LBS of this food costs $112, so its nearly the same price as the NLS.
Forgot this: :D
Guaranteed Analysis
Min. Crude Protein….35%
Min. Crude Fat………10%
Max. Crude Fiber…….2%
Max. Moisture………. 8.5%
Max. Ash……………..8%
Min. Phosphorus…….(.5%)
Min. Omega 3 ………. 1%
Min. Omega 6………..(.5%)



I think the 5lb bucket of NLS is a bit cheaper though ;)

Personally, I have been using a combination of Hikari, Kens flakes, and kens soft and moist with krill for the longest. After reading the Hikari vs. NLS thread I have decided to try NLS, and if my fish like it, I will make the switch. I'm awaiting my order from kensfish at the moment.
 

kdrun76

Piranha
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Mar 4, 2009
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LOL so you know what brand it is. NLS is $55 for 5 Lbs or $11/ Lb and this brand is $112 for 10 Lbs or $11.20 / lb. Give or take twenty cents, they are the same price.

And most NLS feeds are actually $60 for 5 Lbs making this brand actually cheaper by eighty cents/ Lb
 

cchhcc

Feeder Fish
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Please don't make me figure out how much $$$$$ I'm spending on my fish. I might have a heart attack! Hahahah!

You're right with your calculations. So why are so many people paying even MORE for inferior Massivore?
 

kdrun76

Piranha
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For the same reason people pay so much for a Mc Donald's Meal, when its sooo much healthier and cheaper to make your own sandwich: effective advertising and convenience.
 

jgentry

Plecostomus
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Aug 22, 2008
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RD.;4082418; said:
I didn't say your wife wasn't a vet, after re-reading what I posted I apologize if you read it that way. I didn't mean to imply that I questioned that comment.

You wear a lab coat all day, and state that you understand the labels, yet you seemingly want to debate issues that are quite frankly non debatable. Do I need to provide links to a study (or 10) for every nutrient statement that I make? If you feel that you (or anyone else for that matter) can refute anything that I have posted in this discussion thus far, or any other discussion, then by all means please do so. If not, then put your silly liitle salesman card away while I attempt to help those who appreciate the time I take to post on this forum.

You are welcome to your opinion, I have no problem with that, and have said so to you & the OP from the get go in this discussion. Yes, there are less costly alternatives, even less costly than what you are currently feeding. OK?

With regards to the finicky fish comment, and Moorish Idol, I'll be back later with a detailed response.

The real world is calling .....
I'm not questioning anything you have said. All I have stated in every post is that I don't feel that I get enough extra from paying more for NLS compared to what I'm feeding now. That doesn't make what I feed a better food. NLS may in fact be the best food on the market. But I don't think it is needed for every situation or every fish tank. If I was trying to prep a fish for a show or just had a couple of display tanks it may very well be worth using NLS instead of cheaper options. For just general care and fish health I think what I am using seems to do the trick though.

I'm glad you are passionate about the product you support and you can provide all of that info, other companies certainly do not. I'll try to dig through my fish food stuff tonight and see what I have. A friend gave me a pile of food a while back when he got out of the hobby. I know there were some of the NLS mini pellets in there. If I have enough I'll try to seperate one of my spawns and see what a growout tank fed on NLS compared to Xtreme results in. I'm guessing that you would really need to do it over the life of a fish for it to really be a true representation on anything though. If nothing else it will be a fun experiment:D.
 

HrHagel

Plecostomus
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Sep 7, 2009
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I mix my own food, from 4 different brands. Flakes, sticks, pellets, granules, all gets mixed together and fed at the same time.
The fishes eats everything and doesn't avoid any of the foods.

Easyest way to cover your fish's entire needs imo, or have i been missing something this entire time?
 

cchhcc

Feeder Fish
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jgentry;4082572; said:
I'm not questioning anything you have said. All I have stated in every post is that I don't feel that I get enough extra from paying more for NLS compared to what I'm feeding now. That doesn't make what I feed a better food. NLS may in fact be the best food on the market. But I don't think it is needed for every situation or every fish tank. If I was trying to prep a fish for a show or just had a couple of display tanks it may very well be worth using NLS instead of cheaper options. For just general care and fish health I think what I am using seems to do the trick though.

I'm glad you are passionate about the product you support and you can provide all of that info, other companies certainly do not. I'll try to dig through my fish food stuff tonight and see what I have. A friend gave me a pile of food a while back and when he got out of the hobby. I know there were some of the mini pellets in there. If I have enough I'll try to seperate one of my spawns and see what a growout tank fed on NLS compared to Xtreme results in. I'm guessing that you would really need to do it over the life of a fish for it to really be a true representation on anything though. If nothing else it will be a fun experiment:D.

What's a few more tanks? Hah!

It would be interesting to see what happens if you feed LESS of the NLS than the Extreme. I never did that in my tests. I just was looking for growth, general health, waste, color, etc. Although it wouldn't change my choice food, I'd be interested to know what the cost analysis is.

It surely seems like I get away with feeding less NLS, but I can't really quantify it exactly.
 
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